Down with the dictator

Down With General Franco It was certainly a war of good versus bad, and to say otherwise is psychpathic, when you see what actually happened. Evil on the side of dictatorship, good for the republic, To say otherise, is either naive, or right wing attempts to confuse history into not seeing that their men were evil.

The fascist thug led a force that executed 200,000 during the war, 50,000 after it, and saw 100,000 killed in his camps. He massacred 3000 in Asturias before the war, and 5000 died in his armies attacks on Morocco. with the guy who became France's facsit dictator in the 1940s.

Seeing more Spanish people die per head in his reign, than the amount of Italians, and French put together in World War two.;

He built statues commemoratuing himself.

After 2000 they were taken down by socialists. Some Right wingers, try claiming the Socialists killed more than the right in this war. This is a fallacy. The facts speak for themselves, there are huge lists of Right Wing massacres, and deaths squads.

This website in Spanish gives a list of some fascist massacres in the war, http://www.memoriahistorica.org/alojados/periquete/paginas/noticias1.html

This is the list of the amount of Iberian people executed by the "nationalst" devil worship side in the Spanish civil war,
A idea that still does not doubt it's rightness, when they were killing and slaughtering,

THere are some who claim the left killed more but this a lie.

There are other sites that only list the religous members who were massacred, even though those religous members were supporting a side, that massacred more people than the irregular troops who killed them

The only sources that claim the left massacred more than the left were a man who was actually in the Fascist government, which some people bizarel;y use as a source to obey, and the source of Hugh Thomas,. a man who some right wingers claim was left wing, even though he was an ally of Thatcher, and was so right wing, he claims the bombing of Guernica had "strategic needs", i.e a town that was so wrong to bomb the fascist forces claimed they did not bomb it into the 1970s. To defend something even the fascists themselves knew was unjustifiable, and wrong shows a terrible level of bias. Even to the 1970s the Spanish Far right regime refused to reveal records on the mass killings. They never wanted to make them public. Even at times indicating if people knew people would be horrified when reading about what had gone on. Thomas's books, seem to be actually hatchet jobs against the left, for instance, his report on Guernica, does that terrible right wing trick, of saying "some people believe", for his disgusting allegations against the left. Acommon trick, where they allege that left wingers are linked to terrible people, or that minorities are doing this, but still they can not be called racist or extreme, as they are only saying what "some people believe". a common anti democracy anti real debate trick. and for him his book claims that the Basques put dynamite in the sewers, and then goes onto give some claims why it would have been possible, why the Basques would have done this, of course he is vague over whether he belives it. This is a typical right wing trick, High Thomas is not a unbiased observer. At the same time his book also claims their were good strategic reasons for bombing it.

I believe this is what can be seen as 2 sides, The right wing, and the left wing. The left wing when taking over Spain in the 1980s, did not comitt mass executions the right did when it took over in the 1930s, and these kills were ordered by the government.

Many rightist claim to be neutral, what they do, is they say both killed the same amount of people, to be "fair". When this is unfair, on the people who died in executions by fascist forces. I can put it no better than Desmond Tutu when he said if a elephant is standing on a mouse's tail, it will not find it very ok, for you to say you are neutral in this affair. Indeed the right wing version of neutrality is actually even more unbalanced than that,
This so called "neutral" view likes to claim that to counter how Germany and Italy gave huge help to the far right, that this is a devastating fact for the right. So they claim the USSR, was giving as much help to the republic, so as to claim that the war was not one of good versus evil, democarcy versus Facsism, but Communism, versus fascism, despite in all honesty being a war of a democratic regime, versus a fascist regime. And the rightists claim that infact if anything the fascists were nice fascists. Infact the USSR, being on the Republic's side, does not stop the democratic republic of Spain, being a democratic state, After all the USSR was on the side of the US in the 1940s, it does not make America Communist, and it was on Churchill's side, it does not make him a Communist. I think if you think it is ok to hate the Spanish Republic for that, you are like Ukranian nationalist who found himself guarding a concentration camp in 1944. Anyhow the fact is the USSR only gave some, help it sent in spies and movers and shakers, to try and take over the Spanish left but it did that to the Afghan and Laos, monarchies, and it did that to many groups around the world. It does not mean that right wingers oppose them automaticly. What about how the USSR Britain and USA were all allied, as to with the USSR, loads of groups, from worldwide, all of good nature and belief. It does not mean we should oppose those people, from HG Wells, to elements of left wing movements worldwide. It takes allot of hate and right wing nazi suseptibility, and naivety towards right wingers, to hate the democratic, not in any real way brutal, Spanish left wing government of 1936, The people who oppose them are either right wingers, or naive left wingers who do that typical thing, of then not having the same standards for things they support, or right wingers as they towards the left, i.e people who oppose the Spanish government for accepting Soviet help, but who do not oppose Churchill even though he too allied massively to the USSR, even giving it ammo, a far more supportive thing than just accepting their help, or FDR, Because they look at this rationally, not naively, they say we Britain had to ally with the USSR as we were up against the wall, We should look at what happened in Spain rationally, one side was for good, and one for brutal bullying and oppression, it had to ally to the USSR, as nobody else was willing to ally to it, as right wing interests were opposing the Spanish left wing democratic government. I am against monarchy it is terrible, but funny how these right wingers forgive the kaiser for what he did, in causing World War One, and some do not oppose some kings who threw in their lot with the USSR or Communists, who allways did it just as they saw the USSR or Communists was bound to win, as they are biased in favour of a form of dictatorship monarchy, and biased against left wing ideals, which many then always claim they support, but in fact which they do not, funny how these people who say they oppose the Spanish left regime, then claim the USSR did not help it that much, when wanting to do the USSR down again, and then claim it did, when wanting to do the Spanish left down. In reality the USSR was nowhere near as bad as the Fascist coalition, and Spain was a independant left wing government, that was right to accept help from anybody and desreved support from everybody,.

The fact is that the Republic, saw some of it's irregulars massacre some rightists but that was part of the war, as they knew rightists were doing worse. And the religous guys they killed, were not some nice guy who goes to church, they were supporters of a army coup, and a force that specifacly wanted to kill it's opponents. Who had opposed democracy, and were key authorities in Spain.

So anyhow, the biggest proof that the right in Spain were utter frauds, and can not be trusted,

Is how one of the big excuses they give for supporting the civil war and it's deaths is that their dictator vermin did not ally to Hitler, and so Spain did not have to fight the second world war. The fact is they allied with the Germn Nazis, and sent some people to help kill for Hitler. And that excuse of saying Franco was a hero, as Spain was not involved in WW2, is rubbish, as Spain has more deaths per population than Italy and France per population in the war put together. in the 1935-47 period. And even had famines of 100,000 deaths in the late 1940s, when the rest of Weestern Europe was at peace.

Massacres by the Spanish fascists include

Basques 22,000, executed 1938-1947,. i.e capture of bilbao 1000 Basques executed http://process.greenpeppermagazine.org/tiki-index.php?page=Anti-Authoritarians
Basque Nationalists claim that 21,780 Basques executed during his neutrality http://overlake.org/Teachers/dwhitson/History%2010/Basques.doc.
Badajoz 1800-4000 civilians, massacred by Nationalist, at end in bull ring, Bull ring
uk.encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_781530808/Spanish_Civil_War.html 2000 prisoners,possibl;y 4000 too 9000 http://www.memoriahistorica.org/alojados/periquete/paginas/noticias1.html

But most say it was 140,000 by the right during the war, and 50,000 after it, plus 100s of thousands in Concentration camps.

Added to this the Spanish Civil war was caused by the right wing coup. It certainly could not have happened without that.

A unreasonable coup, when 500,000 to 1,000,000 people died.

After the war 20,000 to 50,000 Leftists were executed, by dracula laughing inquisistion style Spanish nazis who still pride in the people who did those kills,

Something like 100,000 to 200,000 died, in camps, and executions after the war

100,000 to 200,000 died in famine after world war two, in Spain,

1000s of Spanish people died fighting for the German Nazis, against the USSR, with soem thabnks from Franco, and his allies,

1000s of Canary Islands people died when fleeing in boats from their poverty stricken island in the 1940s

1000s of Spanish people died in a war in North Spain against leftists who rebelled against Spanish Nazis

1000s of Spaniards died in German Concentration camps fighting for the French republic,

10s of Spanish died in 1950s suppression,

And over 500 in late 60s, and early 70s oppression and terrorism, .

17000 Spanish people of which and 2500 Moors died fighting for the Spanish nation against the Morrocans, in 1916-1927, in a right wing colonial war, more than in all the turmoil of 1930-36, of which most was fascsit caused deaths, and any left wing terror deaths were not that dissimilar in number to how many were killed by th e plus 2000 spaniards 1909-1911, Franco was a killer of Morrocans and Arabs,

The classic far right excuse of thr reasoning of why they say the Civil war was right.

Was as in the 1930s, plus, people, that they were replacing a disorder laden, republic. The fact is that the right were the main disorder, Franco massacred thousands of people in Asturias under the Centre right and far right coalition, that caused so many deaths. Other than that the amount of people who died before the Fascist coup attenpt and civil war was less than the amount of people who have died in post Basques seperatists restarting. Lets face it over 500 people died in late Franco years, and 1000 or so in Spanish conflicts in wars, plus 1000 or so in early 20thC, riots and revolts and more in oppressing colonies, and 1917 influenza, Surely the reasoning of this, is that in the 1960s another civil war, for an even more right wing coup should have occurred to stop eta, causing another million and a half, or 3million as of the increase in population. The Spanish nazis even re-established a monarchy that had such a history of oppression, and colonial evil. and costs so much money, for no good reason, other than the monarchy liking to live in luxery

The French government wanted to give weapons to aid Spain's government against the fascist hordes but Britain made it not. Mexico and the USSR aided justice as did the World far left, the greatest people in the world.

The only countries to copy Franco's constitution were

Equatorial Guinea, which had the highest murder rate in the world, in the late era of Franco's regime, and when ruled the Franco way, saw possibly 10% of the people killed, by the dictator copying his way of doing things.

And Colombia, by some fascists, which hardly helped it, after world war two, and helped see all those deaths in war it had had between left and right

Spain only started growing economically after the 1950s, when it ditched half the facist policies, the regime was created for. It accepted the left wing ideals in many ways they were fighting to oppose. Even unemployment benefit, the exact opposite of right wing ideaology. Even with large aid, it stayed having a lower standard of living than say France which was just as socialist as the Spanish Republicans wanted Spain to be. And is still far richer than Spain.

Of foreigners deaths were in the Spanish Civil war

French: 1,000-3,000
German-Austrian: 2,000
American: 900-1,500
Yugoslav: 700
Italian: 600
Britons: 543
Swiss: 76

Sources include Spanish Civil war, and also Ernest Hemingway's book on the Spanish Civil war, for people unintrested in historical books, and also for people who are interested in them too,

100S of people were killed in 1920-39 Italy for political reason by the facsists, not including the thousands in wartime, and Ethopians, and Libyans masacred by the regime,. 1000s probabaly 10 sof thousands, were killed by the fascist regime, in colonial lands, of Italy, and 10s of thousands of Italians in wartime,

Famous killed people in Italy include, Giovanni Amendola (liberal deputy and former minister, d.1926); who was beaten to death by fascists
Pietro Gobetti (intellectual and founder of a liberal review, d.1926); who also was, and was also high up in opposistion
Antonio Gramsci (founder of the Italian Communist Party, d.1937); He was high up in the opposistion to the dicattorship and died of being in prison of illhealth
Giacomo Matteotti (socialist deputy, d.1924); Killed by fascist thugs,
Carlo and Nello Rosselli (intellectuals and founders of an anti-fascist review, d.1937); Assasinated by French facist group funded by Italian and Spanish facists
Father Giovanni Minzoni ( beaten dead by fascist thugs in 1920s,

Most were beaten to death, some were executed for political opposistion aded to this, and planning rebellion attempts, some more were mugged and beaten, and torturted being given diorhea, in one mad way,

They had many executions 10s in the late 20s and early 30s, plus killed many political rivals, they had many kills of leftists before coming to power, 100s, plus their allies killed many just before they tookover, as in thugs, and also killed many masons in a massacre in the mid 1920s, under them per head far more died of political violence than in Britain or France for the era,It kills 500-639 Italian critics too the mid 20s, including what fascist style police did before they tookover, outside state wishes in some ways, and killed possinly 700 then, and tortured and jailed and beat many thousands more, and exiled many, with much discrimination on political grounds, plus many Jewish soldiers killed themselves as of the banning of Jews from the army, by monarchy and state in the 1930s, also 10,000 people were exiled around Italy in the 1930s some died of the Corfu mini war 10s at most in the 1920s

The facsist french terror group killed at several people iclduing men and almost certainly women, in the late 1930s, and were given help by Italy and Germany's facists, with it aiding Spain's facists in the Spanish Civil war, it was anti semitic, and anti repuclian, and anjti democrat, and tried to assaintae the late 1930s French PM, and wanted a Spanish Nazi style coup, ift they had won, they each would have invaded the USSR with Germany in the 1940s, so seeing even more deaths than died in World War two, and more French and British deaths, as of diasease and nukes from that war

So lets look at this, it was a war of good v bad.

The terrible thing about Franco's apologists is that they have no real defence. Nohing they did that was good, was only possible in a dictatorship, and all that they did that was bad, would not have been done by a democarcy, It may even be the case, that a democartic left leaning Spain, would have made WW2 impossible, as of being a possible help to a socialist France. and a Labour Britain. As a Labour Britain, as the Labour part of Britain could have been upped by leftists in Spain, and they did support the left in Spain, then. But far right demons did not even think about that,. http://www.odu.edu/ao/instadv/quest/metromurder.html,

Not only Barcelona FC was attacked by the Facsists, but also Real Madrid saw even as a few a number, as they are, as elites of things can never be that many, a high member killed by the facist regime

The really annoying thing about the right is that they are so evil. The Spanish Civil war shows this up, as they were massacring and ousting a democratic regime, and supported the far right side Hitler supported. There is no doubt without them the Civil War would not have occurred.

The Spanish right wing regime also allowed many fascists from other lands of Europe to live there, many of whom were horrificly right wing

The right on the Civil war, claim the democratic regime was Stalinist, surely it was not. It was a regime fighting a nazi force, that was executing and massacring. They endlessly claim they were as bad as eachother, but at the same time, defend all those who supported the nationalists. The worst are those who claim it was naive to support the left in this war. Surely actually it was naive to be neutral, as that was puerly to support the undoubtably worse Fascist side. As if you do not condemn the Fascist side more, surely you are ignoring how they killed so many more, and caused the war. And supported the Nazis in WW2. Surely any side if up against a fascist attack, would fight back, and to not accept that is either naive, or deliberately misleading.

In a sense you can say Franco lost, as Spain is now a democracy, led by one of the most left wing parties in the world, and republicans are now mainstream and very popular in the youth, in 2007 anyhow, and we are almost at a stage where even a sensible powerless monarchy can be replaced by a great republic, not that monarchy is sensible it is evil, but the Spanish monarchy have made few big mistakes in their powerless position, but happily can be abolished soon, But Spain's republican left lead and hopefully will be able to establish the republic, aswell as the democarcy and Euro, and loads of other stuff, the Republicans just have one step abolishing the monarchy, to add to democarcy, and fredom, and some welfare that they caused. The Spanish civil war was a brave fight against a evil force backed by many evil right wing across forces from across the world at the time, from far right busineses from Britain to the US, to the leading far right regimes of the time. The left and democraticly elected regime, were brave martyrs to freedom and democracy and equality. The left fought in a way like the defenders of the Alamo, or Juarez's attempts to make Mexico win freedom from foreign imperial moves, or like the French Resistance, it was a just fight and that is that.

The left also had the largest number of foreign volunteers willing to die for their army, who were from lands where the government opposed them going there, and for non religous non nationalist and for non mercanary and non treasure hunter reasons, in history, and also it was not for some nationalism, not that that is always wrong, and not for some racist war against some group, and that is a wrong. It was brave story and a story, that needs remembering, whereas the far right's volunteers were almost entirely from lands where the local regime wanted them to go there, so were really far right soliders. So it was the forerunner of World War Two, and it showed again as World War Two showed ebven more starkely why left wing society is needed.

So the left won in the end, against murderous royalists and Francoistas

100s of people in Italy were killed by far right terrorists in the 1946-1993 era, like in the 1970s Bologna bombings when they tried to pretend it was leftists, when they did it, to provoke tension in Italy, with the aid of some Nazi secret service groups, and it comitted many murders, and some more many deaths bombing, like in 1969, in Rome,

A similar strategy was tried in Turkey, by far right secret service groups, in the 1970s, and 100s died in that situation, possibly 1000s, at least 694 were murdererd by just one far right terrorist group, with 37,000 under the army rule in wars with the Kurds, and massacres of Kurds, by the army regime, with that war only ending when Turkey became a democracy in the 1990s, and deals were made with Kurds, so reducing their popular base, and the veracity, and the democratic regime, did not go brutal and do the army right's bloody thirsty antics, style ways, but it still in 2007 has effects with Turkey still having bomb attacks against and by Kurds, so this army rule's effects were just bad, in arch game theory demonry, Compare with 1970s Germany where Terrorism, was beaten by democracy, and never grew much, and France, in the 1970s, where big potential nationalist terror groups, never boomed, compared with Basque groups in 1970s Spain, and then look at Turkey where the army and right came along, and were so hopeless, they caused such organisations, just like in Spain against the Basques in 1960s to boom, the most unequal and anti democratic freedom and anti equality for all citizens values areas and lands in Western Europe had the biggest terrorism, in 1946-75 the era of the Spanish Dictatorship, not that the terrorists should be justified, in proper democracies,

See Spain, Franco is opposed by most Spaniards, in 2007 anyhow, and probabbly in later dates after this site was written, even when historical figures are usually supporetd i.e almost most Russians see Stalin as ok in their past, so it takes allot to be seen as a opposed ruler who ruled for decades if you were not ousted in a revolution, so Franco was bad, evil and wrong. certainly in 2006 when this site was written in here then. Also evilly he supported monarchy so Spain now wastes millions on it's pointless monarchy. Which annoys many decent hard working Spaniards, who just want a equal free democratic land, without far right demeaning ideas, Money spent on these rich millionaires, that many say were certainly not full in opposition to 1980s army coup attempts, that could go to the most poor and suffering in the world or the nation.

In 1972 Croatian far right ustase terrorists ustase who had been a monarchy in world war 2 killed 27 people in a plane bombing in east germany

Also in the 1900-1931 Spain was mostly ruled by the right, and in essentially almost entirely not genuinely democratic ways, and divering degrees of dictatorship, in violence in that time, 1-3,000 died in violence often rightist kills, or battles

Here are some more sites, there are books and articles on the subjects in many internet places, or internet book shops, bookstores, at the bottom, are lists of which were the worst regimes of the past few centuries.

Links to our 100s of websites on history to sport,

A site on the El Nino Famines that killed 10s of millions of Indians, and Chinese and others in the 19th Century

The Highland Clearances

A site on the Belgian Congo, and how the king of that land killed 10s of millions of Congolese

Why the French Revolution was good

The most evil regimes of the 19th Century

A site on 1640s Britain

Worst 18th Century regimes

What were the nicest regimes ever

An Index with links to almost all our sites.

The Best regimes ever in terms of achievers

Worst 17th Century regimes ever